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Misogyny in this here year 2007
Posted by D-Rock on 12/06/07 (Commentary, News)
No folks, misogyny is not a delicious Asian soup. It’s the hatred of women, and December 6th each year marks the anniversary of an event known as the Montréal Massacre, which sadly exemplifies this hatred taken to its end game.
It would be an interesting coincidence (not irony, as a less incredibly smart and literariliy-minded author might have written) that tomorrow holds the expected verdict of Robert Picton, who is accused of abducting, torturing, raping, and murdering up to 31 women on his farm in B.C.
Alas, it is not, because in our “enlightened” society, misogyny still stews in our culture, our institutions, our workplaces, and even in most of us. In a society that still happily depicts women as sexual objects, domineering nags, or helpless victims, it’s no surprise that those in that society who are prone to violence and are looking for a scapegoat for their shortcomings would specifically target them. And with hundreds of Aboriginal women reported missing in Canada with little or no police action, what message is sent to those already warped by our culture’s fucked-up view of half of the population?
While it’s easy — and even fashionable these days — to point with disdain at cultures in other parts of the world where women are considered second-class citizens and have few rights enshrined legally, we should remind ourselves that women are getting a fucking raw deal in the West as well. Despite hard-gotten gains, there’s still a ways to go.
Hopefully this doesn’t come off as paternalistic, further portraying women as “helpless victims” while condemning that very portrayal. Cuz that would actually be ironic.
And that’s coming from a guy … with a dink!
See previously: 17 years later, how much has changed?.
23 fragments of dialogue thus far ...
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Comment by saoirse on December 6th, 2007 at 5:38 pm:
I was quite tempted to keep it shut and watch how this discussion evolved, but that doesn’t appear to be my style. Uppity am I. I’m actually still kind of reticent to post this, because if I wake up tomorrow to another fucking groundhog day I may be forced to self-immolate, so purlease, if you feel your knee jerking while you read this, read a book before posting, kay? Kay.
I seem to be getting in to more arguments about sexism these days (clearly I’m on the rag) where suddenly its parameters have been drastically redefined. No-one told me! Here, for your enjoyment, is a sample of the rich white male treatise on women’s issues (by no means exhaustive):
“Women don’t deserve more than men!” I didn’t say they did.
“Women have the vote, they can work - there are female politicians, journalists, doctors, lawyers… there are no more women’s issues, let it go!”. Ummm… rape? The fact a woman who lives her life without experiencing rape or sexual abuse can consider herself “lucky”? “Thats not sexism!”
O rly? Ok then! My mistake. What about the fact that women who report rape or sexual violence are commonly disbelieved, judged and even punished themselves? “Due process, my friend!”. Ah, I see…
The lack of safe and accessible abortion? “oh, thats a moral issue, thats nothing to do with me”. Hmm. Ok!
The disproportionate percentage of the worlds poor and illiterate with female sex organs? “Thats capitalism! If women want to be free, why aren’t there more female activists!? We can’t do all the work for you!”.
Sorry sir… i mean comrade..
But, what of the systematic use of mass rape as a political tool? “That’s war baby!”
Female Genital Mutilation? “thats cultural!” Domestic violence? Honour killings? Forced marriages? “thats family stuff!”.
Human trafficking / the sex slave trade? “Thats about HUMAN rights, not about WOMEN’S rights!” Aaaahhh, now I get it!
But… Sexual exploitation in prisons, detention centres, refugee camps? “Well, they have more important things to worry about in those places”.
Indeed, how typically feminine, shortsighted and selfish of me.
The fact that women STILL on average earn less than men, have less job security, are less likely to be promoted, are at greater risk of sexual harassment, occupy less desirable positions, and make up a large part of the low-end, throwaway workplace? “Well, I don’t agree with *that*…”.
Aaaaaaand I’m spent.
I’m glad you guys posted this. I’m also nervous about how people will respond. I’m weary (y’know, from the blood loss).
Comment by citizen stefish on December 6th, 2007 at 6:38 pm:
since i don’t live in canada (i live in texass!), i don’t know the answer to this: do you guys have these “born again” christian people up there? and if so, what’re the numbers like? i know that they are everywhere that there’s christianity, but from what i understand, they’re just kind of a nuisance in europe — something to joke about and ignore. here in the states it is something like 40% of the adult population. and it is growing everyday. they’re taken very seriously too, as if they have something to say. it’s why there’s so much regression toward “the olden days” down here. the fuckers vote too. they’re very stealthy. and their beliefs toward the role of women in society rank somewhere around the taliban, or caveman societies. as george carlin has said, they believe that a woman’s role is to be a “brood mare for the state”. it’s terrifying. i am in san antonio, and we have one of the more cartoonish, stone age maniacs here. his name is “pastor hagee”. this shit actually had some air force numbskull at his 40 million dollar church to talk about how bush needs to gain the courage to “nuke” syria — he’d be glad to do it personally if a pilot was needed. the place erupted into rapturous applause. they hate women. and they convince the women in their groups to hate themselves. if you watch the news and someone is introduced as an “expert on women’s issues”, you can guarantee that they hate women. these people worship the fetus, and step over homeless women on their way to protest at the local women’s clinic. they complain that the reason there’s no “good” jobs in our fabulous market is because women are too uppity and want to work, so they take jobs away from men. they can not be reasoned with. and like i said, they vote, and they have “the numbers”. i will vote locally, if only to keep these lunatics off of the school board. there’s a ballot initiative coming up in colorado to give equal rights to a fetus. but nothing to insure that the supposed existing “laws” will be enforced to give full equality to women. i wish i was making this stuff up. one thing that is never mentioned down here in the southern part of the country is all of the women crossing the border from mexico (frequently the women are from el salvador and guatemala) who are abducted, beaten, raped, and sold into sexual slavery. or just “disappeared”. but who cares? they’re “illegal”! not even technically human. it’s ok for them to make our shoes and cheap plastic gizmos, but other than that, fuck em. literally. another thing they want to do is to reluctantly allow abortions (sometimes), but force any woman seeking one to get “permission” from big daddy first. no permission, no abortion. good luck!
they are probably going to kill us all.
Comment by DickShit on December 6th, 2007 at 6:41 pm:
This is a quick media clip (34 minutes) of the mighty Jean Kilbourne giving a presentation on advertising’s image of women. Kilbourne has an impecable analysis of advertising; specifically, its targeting of women, and how this portrayal is perpetuating essentially a war against women, as they are constantly being told their worth goes only so far as their beauty, and beauty - as we’ve come to know it - is virtually unattainable.
Link: http://video.google....search&plindex=0
This is a link to one of the most heart breaking speeches I have ever heard - I was actually able to see Stephen Lewis deliver essentially the same speech just a few days after this was documented; there was not a single dry-eye left in the packed building.
Link: http://stephenlewisf...h_item.cfm?news=1990
“Misogyny is alive, well, and terrifying”
Comment by Yaniv on December 6th, 2007 at 7:23 pm:
It’s always interesting to hear the perspective of most American feminists on some of these matters. I don’t know why this kind of liberal approach is so prevalent here. The liberal feminist discourse typically revolves around arguments for empowering women to positions of power, be it on a political level or in the private sector. But placing women in congress as senators, nor propelling women upwards in the corporate ladder as CEO’s of multinational corporations, won’t end oppression or exploitation. Perhaps no one manifested this like Margaret Thatcher as prime minister of Great Britain during the 80’s. She was Reagan’s (first) transatlantic lapdog as well as an ardent supporter of neoliberalism’s early phases. Don’t get me wrong, though. I think having sexual parity and balance is still important to minimize patriarchal structures. Nevertheless, I was introduced to radical feminism, ironically through propagandhi, which I think I found more compelling than liberal feminism could ever have done. Its focus on the objectification and commodification of women in various industries led me to re-think issues of sex and gender, and had generally a great impact on my personal life. So I think it’s always worthwhile to find mediums by which liberal feminists can find a radical perspective, and recognize that misogyny and sexism, like this story demonstrates, transcend power and capitalism (though they are not mutually exclusive).
Comment by dallas444 on December 6th, 2007 at 10:43 pm:
I’m interested in hearing how the jury is going to rule in the Picton trial, and how much they consider the police interfering with due process. Women are getting a raw deal right now for not being allowed to play soccer while wearing a hijab. Or is that just plain old racism? How about the women brainwashed by the FCC into wearing fur for ads proclaiming that the industry is more environmentally friendly than synthetics. Or maybe that’s speciesism rearing it’s ugly head again. I donno, not to make light of misogyny in any way, but sometimes I get the feeling that it’s all the same pile of shit. That the human race is giving itself and the planet a raw deal by not being able to realize that we’re all in the same sinking ship.
Comment by D-Rock on December 7th, 2007 at 7:58 am:
Dallas: there’s no doubt that most of these issues are related in many ways. And of course women actively take part in all forms of violence and oppression.
But to deny that women as a group — regardless of class or ethnicity — are specifically subject to violence by men … this is delusional.
Comment by dallas444 on December 7th, 2007 at 6:47 pm:
It’s true, that would be delusional. For the sake of clarity, let me re-phrase my comment. While not trivializing the existence of misogyny, I believe that much of the violence directed towards women, by men, is largely a result of a society that tolerates violence in general. I think that at the root of the problem, you find an acceptance of oppression and exploitation of living beings condoned by the greater society, or at least it appears to be when you look at the nation’s political veneer. No denying that feminist education is part and parcel to building a society of peace, but I think that as long as we tolerate things like war and factory farms, some men will continue being dicks to women.
Comment by tom on December 7th, 2007 at 8:38 pm:
hey guys, im happy to see this posted here, and g7 seems to remember every december 6th, to post something about the montreal massacre.
but id like to take this opportunity to criticize the fuck out of alot of people, especially myself.
i found myself thinking on december sixth, that this day is basically a christmas for ending violence against women. you know? its that one time of year, where women gather to commemorate the tragic loss of 14 individuals, all young women, all killed by Marc Lepine (piss on your grave, greatest of ungoly heights etc,). its a fucking christmas. because you know what i hear or see or read on december 7th? traffic reports. hockey games. “whats the best toy to give to kids for christmas” etcc etc. meanwhile, on december 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, etc… women are being raped. women are being abused in their own home. daughters, sister, mothers. women. and you know, aside from march 8th or whatever int. womens day is, i dont really see any posts here concerning the global catastrophe faced by everyday women, everyday. all those things caítlin said…
so besides december 6th, when do we think about violence against women? its so frustrating. and men arent taught how to combat these atrocities withing our own families or friends or our gender. were not taught how to fight these sexist, misogynist views and actions, within ourselves. the resources dont exist for the large part. they arent implemented. theres nothing there. what? call the police? more often then not, calling the police makes things worse. what a surprise. we dont even fucking talk about these things. its like it doesnt exist.
i also wonder, where the fuck are the resources to combat this global disaster? i cant find a men against sexism group in my city. ill have to start my own. im not taught that rape is wrong at 8 years old. i watch bleu nuit at 8 years old and learn that women are more than “just a mother”. i learn, by watching these flims, that women are sex toys for me. because of me. because i am a man.
ive seen white people dismiss violence against women in non white communities because “its their way”.
i know the stuff i right is probably hard to digest. by that i mean, i cant explain my thoughts very well. but i hope to convey to y’all that i also feel angry for seeing this here. because its december sixth, soon to become the next “token womens day.” buy some flowers. and chocolate. it angers me because ive been sexist, ive done things to harm women. and when the time came that i realized this and started to change, i was doing it alone. you seek help to try and end the bullshit, and all you get is “its because your a guy”.
id like to take this oppurtunity to cry out to who ever will listen, for the women who die every other day of the year. feb 2nd. july 16th. september 31st.
in terms of efforts made to commemorate the loss of life, of womens lives, on this day, and in terms of people actually paying attention to this issue on this day, i like to say that december 6th should be everyday of the fucking year. i hope thats not taken the wrong way.
(haha! fooled you! theres only 30 days in september, idiot! but, it proves my point asshole)
Comment by muva2003 on December 11th, 2007 at 1:52 am:
Slightly appropriate to the topic at hand: http://abcnews.go.co...d=3977702&page=1
Fucking messed up..
Comment by tom on December 13th, 2007 at 11:23 am:
also check out the book Natasha’s, it’s available in G7’s store. could it be the only book about women’s struggles in their store? find out for yourself! fuck im a fucking salesman. kill me now!
Comment by asshole on December 15th, 2007 at 3:52 am:
Happy Zamenhof day, everybody!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page (look at the ‘on this day’ section)
Bonan Zamenhofan tagon al ĉiuj!
Comment by saoirse on December 16th, 2007 at 1:51 pm:
So remember all the times you walked past your favourite indie bookshop/vegetarian restaurant/went to your favourite online resource only to discover that all those pleas for your money were prompted by need rather than greed and it was gone, oh lord, GONE FOREVER?
Do you also remember all those times you were *just* about to splurge on a book/ punch in your credit card details/stuff your face, but you got distracted by something shiny or perhaps a nice cat on a windowsill, only to perpetually kick yourself ever after for being such a ditzy, awkward, irish poohead?
Fret not! You can loose all of those guilt feelings and even a few pounds (geddit, pounds? as in weight/moolah? Oh fuck off) by supporting the flashy, exciting (and shiny!) new Znet! These aren’t dudes who ask for money just for the craic of it, and I really believe them when they say this huge overhaul will either make or break Z in its entirity. The latter would suck, so support them or I’ll cyberpunch you. You get tons of shit for your money and the articles alone are such a valuable resource it really is a bargain. Give enough and you may even get a ZSpace page! (exactly what it sounds like). http://www.zcommunications.org/
Completely off topic, oops.
Comment by jammer on December 19th, 2007 at 4:28 am:
I’ll start where the last post left off - on the topic of being off topic.
Read Jord’s post on propagandhi.com and ya its fucked I saw Josh Keys speak at the u of m to a crowd of hmmf 6 to 10 people. Insane his story he recounted. I won’t go into details, buy the book. It was around 2004 or some odd year when he came and there was a gaggle of around 37 of them that were convening with movers and shakers and lawmaker to decide their fate. Still nothing seems to be settled. how the fuck can someone avoiding criminal prosecution from a government that is waging an internationally condemned and illegal occupation not be considered a refugee. and the tory’s say well you want to let them stay(many of whom have now set up lives just to be knocked over again?) then we what about those “real refugee’s” coming from ‘war torn’(that is to say where the battlefield is actually located)? to which we’re suppose to reply oh ya no lets let them in instead - what a fucked up bullying ultimatum. let em all in.
If someone came to my doorstep fleeing, mutilated and in pieces in the middle of the night i think i’d let him in, if yous’ follow me. civic oh i mean christian-nation thing to do right?
Comment by diddee on December 21st, 2007 at 10:17 pm:
Well, i should point out that it is very possible that the U.S. will have it’s first female president by this time next year. In which case a woman will become the most powerful human in the world.
From what i gather Western Europe has been very progressive in recent decades in regards to women. The playing field is becoming more level for women, and that’s good.
Of course there is a ways to go, but i’m not sure that marking the anniversary of a psychopath who went on a killing spree is a fair portrayal of the status of women in the Western world. Until we find a cure for insanity, i’m afraid this probably won’t be the last time women fall victim to deranged men.
But why the fuck would people single out white men on this thread? That’s one of the problems with the far Left IMO. Every problem in the world is blamed on the white man. Seriously, if you take some of the writings and speeches of that self-hate filled wacko Ward Churchill and substitue either Jews, blacks, asians, ect. where he refers to whites, you would think he was a fuckin neo-nazi.
The truth that most John Q. Whiteguys i know are just working stiffs who aren’t in fact oppressing anybody, and it angers me when people broadbrush them as racists or misogynists, which is actually racist itself if you follow me.
Point out the motherfuckers who are actually fucking shit up instead of just referring to them by race.
We rightly don’t blame “the Jews” for the Israeli-centric foreign policy that has wreaked so much havoc in the mid-east. We blame the zionist-extremist lobby who bear responsiblity so as to avoid defaming an entire race or ethnicity.
Does anyone think that if we marched all white males into gas chambers that the world would become a better place?
I highly doubt it. We are all too much alike.
Comment by saoirse on December 22nd, 2007 at 11:47 am:
Woa, calme-toi sweetcheeks.
If my use of the phrase “rich white male” prompted this defensive knicker-bunching (see what i did there?) then you have - predictably, when one picks a word to get offended about and ignores the context - either entirely missed or deliberately ignored my point. Unfortunately for the world of internet drama, I’m on holiday and have absolutely no intention of getting drawn into an argument which just isn’t so much fun the 500millionth time with no “white/male privilege” drinking game present.
Your reaction - from “woman president” to “lone pyscho” to “reverse racism” - is typically defensive and pretty hollow. Its not my job to point out to you how the examples cited by Derek are related to misogyny, nor is it my burden to pick apart said hyperbolic, knee-jerk response (gas chambers? come off it). If it was indeed my post that upset you so, I invite you to re-read it. Otherwise, perhaps you should familiarise yourself more with the concepts of white privilege and patriarchy, and you might find this thread less hard to swallow.
I apologise if I’m coming off as patronising or snappy, but it really irks me when people basically ignore me and instead put words in my mouth. That being said, I have gifts to wrap, soy nog to be totally mystified by, and boozihol to drink, so the words ain’t a-comin’ no more - feel free to continue this discussion alone.
Comment by diddee on December 22nd, 2007 at 6:09 pm:
I wasn’t trying to start shit. i just wanted to point out that white men certainly don’t have a monopoly on misogyny.
Caitlin, when you speak of “white privelage” it doesn’t even make sense from a historical perspective for many who you would now call “white”. My mom grew up farming the potato fields in utter poverty. Her family had been dwelling in the bogs since time immemorial. For Xmas she would jump for joy if she received an orange as a gift. She then busted her ass through nursing school in England, where she indeed faced much discrimination and open hostility from the Anglisch. So how does/did she enjoy white privelage? Irish weren’t even considered “white” up until recently.
Are you aware of the millions of American whites currently residing in trailor parks? Do they benefit from white privelage?
Basically, your critique of white society seems out of date. If in the workplace here in America, a woman is sexually harassed, i.e. treated like a biological fuck machine, she could practically destroy the company through civil lawsuits and become a rich, rich woman, and the offender(s) would be out of a job. I think that’s good. There are also laws against the discrimination of minorities. That’s good too.
I just don’t see the point in discussing matters related to race and gender as if we were living in the 1950s. We’ve got a ways to go, but remember many, many whites also get the shaft in today’s society.
Comment by tom on December 22nd, 2007 at 8:23 pm:
insanity? you think it was insanity that prompted lepine to commit this act? dude, wtf… report after report after fucking report clearly states that lepine had an agenda against women- femminists in particular. if you seriously think that than it’s quite obvious you haven’t really read about the case. as in IT WAS ALL OVER THE FRONT PAGES.
save me your “all whites arent oppressive” routine, the fact of the matter is the majority of this world is based on power structures owned by men. not only white men of course, no, no one has said that it’s only white men that cause destruction in this world. it’s only you who’s started defending white men for some strange reason.
maybe this thread is more directed towards white mens contributions to the destruction of women. marc lepine was a white man, he lived in a middle class area of the same city i call home. i for one am not singling out white men when i talk about sexism, most certainly not.
“we are all too much alike”. i for one fucking hope not dude! because that would be LAME. i feel that maybe you feel like some of the things said in this thread were directed to you…maybe you feel that way because you’re a white male…but no ones targeting you dude, you’re not under attack. but i challenge you to be honest about your relations with women in your life, and i challenge you to realize that by being a white man you are in a very strong position to end violence against women commited by white men. and so am i. and i think we’d all be surprised to find the same things out from the “ordinary working class stiffs” that are most of the white men we know.
because its perpetrated and perpetuated by people we know, brothers, fathers, sons, friends. i’m not talking about some alien invasion from the andromeda galaxy here, im talking about everyday stinky men. like you and me.
Comment by saoirse on December 23rd, 2007 at 3:51 am:
Why is it that when you point out to someone an injustice that maybe, juuust maybe they benefit from, their first response is to list all the ways in which they/their community are oppressed instead of just lookin’ it square in the eye - or god forbid, reading about it so I don’t have to explain it on a Sunday morning?
The fact that you can flippantly refer to white privilege and misogyny as if they were things of the past - fifty years ago? again I say come off it! - are clear indicators of that very privilege. Being able to remain oblivious to other people’s oppression is PART of your privilege.
Of course class is relevant, but that just doesn’t change some things. Ever been pulled over for the well known offense of “driving while black”? Again, I’ll ask: have you got at least a 1-4 chance of being raped in your life? I am in no way trying to avoid acknowledging that normal working white guys have it rough too, but do you really feel the need to talk victim in a post about misogyny? Can’t you just accept that on top of that class prejudice, women and POC have oppressions of their own?
Everything you’ve said is classic defense or avoidance. Ugh. I SWORE i wasn’t going to get in to this again, and I’m not, I’m really not. Links.. links will do the work for me and I can have my coffee.. sweet links.
Start here - “White Privilege: Unpacking The Invisible Knapsack”
http://64.233.183.10...k&cd=1&gl=uk
There’s a shit load of resources at whiteprivilege.com
A dude decided to make up his own “male privilege” version of Peggy MacIntosh’s “white privilege” checklist: http://colours.mahos...g/maleprivilege.html
And this is hilarious: http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/
You could also check out the memories section of this interesting community:
http://www.livejourn...?user=debunkingwhite
I hope you’ll read some of them, but if you don’t, please don’t expect me to explain the concepts therein because you’d rather have an argument than study. Life is too short.
With that, I am - as Cher from Clueless said - outie.
Comment by diddee on December 23rd, 2007 at 5:34 pm:
Tom & Caitlin,
This post was about misogyny. It was both of you who felt the need to single out–and you DID single out–men of the “white race.” You did this despite the face that the most blatant, pathological, and vicious form of misogyny in the West at this time can be found in rap music, which is largely the product of the African American community.
“Bitches ain’t shit but hoes and tricks.”
In Saudi Arabia a women was nearly flogged and jailed for being on the receiving end of a brutal gang rape. I understand that she did receive a pardon from the Saudi king, who decided on “lenience” on account of international outrage–largely from the West.
but i challenge you to be honest about your relations with women in your life, and i challenge you to realize that by being a white man you are in a very strong position to end violence against women commited by white men.
Dude, i have gave an honest assessment of my relations with women, I one of the few things i’m proud of in my life is my track record in that arena. In my adult life i have always treated women with the dignity and respect that they deserve as equal human beings. Why is that so hard to believe? You seem to be implying that just because i’m a male–and a “white” male to boot!–that i at the very least engage in some sort of subtle, subconsious oppression towards women. Well, I reject this implication. And i don’t hesitate to rip into any asshole who makes sexist remarks.
And please indulge me with one final observation. Many people who agitate for womens liberation view the objectification of women in TV and commericials as a major contributor to misogyny. I agree wholeheartedly. But again here only men get the blame.
Is it not time to also start denouncing the women–models and actresses, producers, directors, and what not–who participate in these demeaning media portrayals?
I don’t see the women particpating in this as “victims”. They’re fucking collaborators, using their beauty to gain social power at the expense of their more homely sisters. They should be held just as accountable as men for their deeds. In the spirit of equality, if men should know better than to objectify women, goddamnit so should women.
I feigntly recall pointing out on this blog a few months ago that Paris Hilton was a piece of shit–which she is, plain and simple. I also recall someone defending her on the grounds that she was another victim of society. Nonsense I say.
So my criticism of your responses, Tom and Caitlin, is mainly that they are series of simplistic cliches that may have been valid in another era, but now sound increasingly out-of-date in light of much social progress that has been made in recent years. Again i’ll remind you that the next president of the U.S. will very likely be a black man or a woman. Even if i don’t agree with their politics, I think it will mark a huge step forward for American society.
I’m against racism of any kiind, which means that i don’t think white men are inherently better OR worse than any other men. So i’ll just close by saying that when you single out white men as a kind of driving force behind misogyny, you sound very sophmoric.
Comment by tom on December 27th, 2007 at 10:15 am:
i never singled out white men as the only contributors to sexism and mysoginy, dumdidee, not once did i say that. i’m pointing out the fact that myself, and (maybe) you (a self-proclaimed white boy), both have friends who might identify as white, as well as family members. and, as people who live in these circumstances, we have the power to deconstruct these brutal, deadly thought proceses within ourselves and our communities. let me say wholeheartedly that its my belief that nearly everybody, man or woman, white, brown, black, yellow, red, purple, blue, we’ve all contributed to women’s suffrage. ahem, cough, i mean suffering. bad time for a joke, eh? damn tpb’s…
your passing of the buck to african-american rappers/gangsters as the most abusive towards women just proves my point that your trying to deny, that currently, this very fucking day, white men contribute huge amounts to patriarchy. i mean, this is a fucking post regarding a very dark and disturbing subject, the murder of 14 women, by a white middle class male who had an agenda against femminism. puhhlease dude. if you consider yourself not to be a racist, then what makes you believe that white men dont contribute to sexism as much as african american men do?
in fact it was you who singled out white men dude, not i, not caitlin, it was you who singled out white men as having made progress in terms of our relations to women.
if by “social progress has been made” you mean that women in our communities have got it a little easier than they did maybe 50 years ago, you might be right about the workplace. but the fact is, in our homes, in our streets, our schools, our buisnesses, hell, id say 99% of our social institutions, violence against women is still here, its still because theyre women, and it still destroys lives every minute of every day.
honestly dude, i cant argue. i dont know fucking how. the only thing i can say is that ive attuned my ears to hear the facts, the stories of abuses made towards women, and it screams at me. its still here, in us, and unless we actively fight against these forces of hatred that were imbued into nearly every single living person on this earth, it will continue to be here, and it will continue to destroy women’s lives.
read the natashas dude, from g7s store, itll break your fucking heart, i promise. cause its scaring the shit out of me.
Comment by Viva la Prairies on December 27th, 2007 at 1:16 pm:
Keep the Irish out of this…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NfHbBZELtc
Comment by bits on December 31st, 2007 at 12:29 pm:
I just want to say that I think this is one of the best blog threads I’ve seen on this site for awhile (at least I determined so just now by quickly scrolling through a few in the last year). I think it’s a good topic and that it is important to keep in mind that misogyny still exists in our communities and having an open diaologue to address it is one of the best ways to work on erradictaion of those ingrained ideals.
now
to tom: I’ve actually taken some offence to your last posts. I think the whole skin color and it’s relation to degrees of sexism debate is silly. Men of all ethnic backgounds have a vested interest in gaining and maintaining power, and one of the ways they do this is though sexism and abuse against women. Of course I don’t think that includes every single male, but I do think it is an overall interest for that gender (just as it is in the interest of a select group to mainatin economic power over workers. crass wrote “we’re all just niggers to the rulers of this land,” but it is just as true if you substitute “niggers” for “bitches”).
Anyways, my offense is at your contradictory insistences that both color/ethnicity does not matter in regards to misogyny while also emphasizing Lepine as white and middle class. I have an Algerian Muslim friend who, although having similar skin tones to many north americans, would be offended if you insisted on him being “white.” What is “white”? The coverage of the 1989 massacre is one of the few instances where I can really commend corporate media for focusing on the important facts of a news story, i.e. hatred and violence against womyn. It’s interesting to think how the media would have reported this tragedy had it transpired after the fall of the twin towers - undoubtedly as a muslim fanatic whose views of womyn have no bearing on our own civilized society. (Lepine’s first name was Gamil Gharbi and was a first generation canadian whose family was from Algeria.)
So lets leave skin colors out of it - its arbitrary enough defining who is white without putting “degree of sexism” as a characteristic.
If you don’t believe sexism still exists in our community, here’s an anecdote from a few days ago: I went to a large health clinic on broadway, which is really the only one in the area available to most people (esp. as it’s open late and on weekends. important as most in this area must have a few jobs to survive) for some antibiotics and found out that there was only one doctor (of about 20-30) who was accepting patients as a family doctor (the alternative to not having a family doctor is long wait times at a walk-in clinic to get a doctor who doesn’t know your history and only really wants to finish with you to get to the next patient). In order to become this doctors’ patient you have to sign a paper acknowledging that for “moral” reasons he will not issue most drugs (as in assuming that those in the area are all drug addicts) including benign (as in non-recreational) things like some antibiotics, that he will not give any information or referrals for abortion and will not give any information or prescriptions for birth control. There were more points but I didn’t read past number three before I looked at the nurse incredulously and made a comment about how fucked up it was (not my most eloquent comment, surely). A day or two later the free press ran a (syndicated, I believe) story on national erosion of female control over their bodies legally and in the health system, such as a loss of hospitals that perform abortions (a journalist inquiring to a ” western prairie hospital” about abortion services was actually told she was a sick and terrible person for considering it and was basically going to burn in sulfur baths. I can’t imagine what it is like to be pregnant and not have any options: to not have access to the few urban clinics which can help. I think that affects us all in a lot of ways.
Comment by diddee on January 5th, 2008 at 4:52 pm:
The fact that you can flippantly refer to white privilege and misogyny as if they were things of the past - fifty years ago? again I say come off it! - are clear indicators of that very privilege.
I wasn’t being flippant. I was merely pointing out that misogyny extends well beyond the “white” world. Yet you and Tom felt the need to specify “white” males. It sounds like a typical knee-jerk cliche from some snooty middle-class college kid, with no critical thinking behind it.
Being able to remain oblivious to other people’s oppression is PART of your privilege.
I’m oblivious, eh? How’d you know??
So tell me, does “white male privelage” entail working 50+ hours a week to make ends meet and being w/o health care coverage? Not having any affirmative action benefits available despite a humble backgroud?
When I got my head bashed in by police officers WHILE HANDCUFFED was that “white privelage”?
So, does my vita fit your academic notion of “white privelage” that i must surely benefit from? If so, i’d gladly take a pass on it.
By the way Caitlin, i hope you enjoyed your vacation. I could really use one myself, as i haven’t been on one for years.
your passing of the buck to african-american rappers/gangsters as the most abusive towards women just proves my point that your trying to deny, that currently, this very fucking day, white men contribute huge amounts to patriarchy.
Actually, dear Thomas (and Caitlin for that matter) if you look deep inside you’ll realize that YOU”RE being racist by holding “white” men to a higher standard.
For fucks sake, gangster rap is to women as skrewdriver is to non-whites. Both fucking celebrate the dehumanization of and violence towards certain segments of the population.
Subconsciously you must think that blacks can’t help their behavior. Or are you scared to call them on their shit?
In contrast to many here, i have many REAL friends of African descent, not just people i volunteer to help. So i interact just as comfortably w/ them as people from other communities. Actually, maybe even more comfortably with them than middle class know-it-alls, like yourselves. But I do think we’re all equals and capable of the same standards. believe that’s the attitude we all need to have if we are to ever truly transcend all forms of racism.
And if you think about it, your lack of criticism towards the way certain women act by taking advantage of sexism in order derive social power and privelage, and thereby reinforcing sexism, shows that you don’t hold women to the same standards as men.
Think about it.
Now, since you’ve taken it upon yourselves to generalize me, it’s only fair i generalize you.
You both are a lot like Christians, with your finger pointing, acting like you have moral authority, and substituting the “white male” for Satan. You also strike me as very self-satisfied.
Instead of the bible, you turn to books by intellectuals, ensconced in academia, leading quite comfortable and priveleged lives, who have little, if anything, in common with the oppressed peoples they claim to champion.
I bet you’re only willing to help other people so long as you never have to clean public toilets or dig ditches for a living. And i’m talking about going beyond the occasional token displays..
Long live the losers, nobodies and street urchins of all colors and genders! Fuck the arrogant elitists speaking at us from both the right and the left!!!